Russian officials have repeatedly stated that they aren't responsible for civilian deaths their missiles cause, because the Ukraine is bad.

You're confusing origin of manufacture and intentional use, otherwise you should be braying like a retard that the USA is killing Palestinians.

(though, honestly, we both know you wouldn't give a fuck about those dirty brown people)

wait, do you even consider them people?

I'll gladly admit that the Israelis shouldn't be murdering civilians, so long as you admit that the Russian separatists shouldn't be murdering civilians, either.

Actually, I'll admit it right now, because it's not hard to do. The Isarelis shouldn't be murdering civilians! Just as Hamas shouldn't be murdering civilians, as well as using a different group of civilians as human shields, for the express purpose of goading the IDF into committing atrocities which can then be spun to the benefit of Hamas thanks to a grassroots network of useful idiots.

*No-one* should be murdering civilians. Israelis, Palestinians, Russians, you name it. Murdering civilians is a very bad thing, full stop!

Wouldn't you agree?

Please point out where I've said, or specifically implied, that it's okay for any country to kill civilians?

You stupidly keep suggesting that the airliner was brought down intentionally, when it wasn't.

You also bought the human shield propaganda, not that it really matters, since it's a war crime to knowingly kill civilians to achieve a military goal. And just FYI, the IDF uses Israeli civilians as human shields too! (by this standard) Their headquarters are located in the city of Tel Aviv surrounded by civilian buildings and a civilian hospital.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HaKirya

Honestly, SolRo, I can't understand why you get so partisan about things like this - it's always this big black and white issue for you, where the Americans and the Jews are totally in the wrong, while the Eastern Other is totally in the right. You find it so easy to recognize the moral ambiguity of the "Western" position, yet as soon as anyone brings that same level of scrutiny to the Russians, or to Hamas, or to whatever other group you've currently got it in your head to defend, you flip out and start accusing them of being subhuman, racist maniacs! I've never heard you admit that Hamas is wrong for civilians. You're not even able to do it now; it simply nevers occur to you to do so. And yet, you take someone like baleen, who's always demonstrated a remarkably objective and balanced understanding of the situation, and the moment he opens his mouth you're banging the war drums and calling _him_ a shitheel! You refuse to admit that Palestinian extremists, assholes whom not even the average Palestinian likes very much, intentionally utilize human shields (a tactic which was famously pioneered by Arafat himself, and underlies the strategic logic of virtually all modern terrorist groups), yet you're willing to do all sorts of intellectual gymnastics to try and "prove" that having a clearly-defined military enclave in a major administrative center is the same thing as launching rockets from inside residential areas. (I don't suppose you'd be willing to extend your HaKirya argument to Putin and the Kremlin...?) I know you think you're being objective or progressive or who knows what, but we're telling you, respectfully, as your friends, that this is not the case.

Can you, or can you not, admit that Hamas is wrong for targeting civilians, and shares at least as much blame for this situation as the IDF?

1000 Palestinian civilians dead vs 3 Israeli civilians dead.

If it's not black and white, it's really fucking dark grey and slightly dusty white.

And just FYI, I don't blame "Jews" for this, I blame Israel.

The rest of your shit isn't really worth responding to because it's really obvious the only thing you know about the situation and what has been going on for the last decade is what you read in the last week from western news repeating IDF talking points as fact.

But just to humor your derpy logic; Hamas are the bad guys, but why must Palestinian civilians be made to suffer for their actions at the hands of Israeli economic sanctions, blockades, extrajudicial policing, assassinations, punitive punishments, indiscriminate bombings and invasions?

each of you make a Game of Thrones joke now

if you just keep fighting, civilians will be killed

I don't think you actually have a single clue about how difficult, expensive and time consuming it is to relocate your whole family to a different country, even one that would accept immigrants.

Your stupidity also ignores how most peoples life savings are put into their house, business or land ownership. And I bet the real-estate market in Gaza is awesome right now.

Also Gaza is under military blockade, Palestinians CANT leave.



Can you please just punch yourself for saying something so stupid?

I'd be fine handing New Jersey over to the Palestinians.

"Also Gaza is under military blockade, Palestinians CANT leave."

Yep.

And even if it wasn't, why do people think that moving to another country when you are poor and vulnerable such an easy thing? Good luck getting over the border, for one, but even if you make it, look at how well even we (great and powerful USA) treat our refugees.

Also remember that these people do have a claim on this land, one can argue moreso than anyone else, though that's open to interpretation. Yes, it's stupid to feel attached to any piece of land, but if you are the 10th generation in a certain area, it is hard to pick up and leave all that behind. You may leave behind the only house your family has owned, the graves of your parents and grandparents, the small farm or shop you have worked to keep going and so forth. There is a heritage there.

But clearly they're not. The entire war is about exit tunnels.

You are not where your daddy's semen happened to land.

And, the notion of Israeli exceptionalism is as absurd as American exceptionalism. I propose giving Palestinians a chance to leave and a chance for Israel to make good on it's ancestral ironies. Nobody's innocent here and nationalism is a lie.

You notice how you sound like a really stupid trust fund hipster right now?

Do you also have a solution for unemployment that involves your dad giving you a job at his company?

My dad is a bisexual prison minister.