Ugh.. I could only make it 5 minutes in (surprised I made it that long) but I think I know where this is going: I was in the "friend zone" with a "beautiful woman" (but probably "average" according to this douchebag) for a while, and then we sort of started dating and therefore not in the "friend zone." I never texted her because I didn't have a phone, so she kind of had to track me down at work or something or I'd see her on campus or at a show and we'd hang out. My intent was not to be passive aggressive, I just wasn't with the times (this was like 2000, when not everyone had a cellphone.) Eventually she accused me of not trying hard enough by not going the extra lengths to see her as she did for me (what do you expect? She worked in a library!) So then we were back in the "friend zone." I really liked her so at that point I made an attempt at being more aggressive, getting her little gifts or making her mixtapes, and then we were dating again, but eventually went our separate ways.

The whole "nice guys finish last" bullshit is really getting on my nerves. Sure, I've been attracted to really attractive women who only want to be my friend, and have made that perfectly clear when I tell them that I would like to be their boyfriend. Do I stop being a nice guy after that and toss them aside? Absolutely not, and I'm assuming that's more the symptom of a "beautiful woman's" standoffishness than an actual desire to be in a relationship.

IZ:

I just wanted to say that over the past few months I have, time and time again, enjoyed your mostly anecdotal comments. Please don't stop. Please. Your interesting life gives my semi-boring one an iota of meaning. Whatever that means.

-mm13

I couldn't even listen to what he was saying over the noise of him wearing sunglasses in his vlog.

How to get out of the friend zone: be the sort of person that can't have friends.

He's like Cyclops. He can't take the glasses off or else pure, unfiltered douchebaginess will shoot out of his eyes.

Counterpoint to millerman13: Nobody cares about your bullshit, you self-centered prick.

Infinitezest, you clearly need to study his video about "how to text a hot girl," bro.

Five mutant stars for StanleyPain.

@OZ: so.. "(.) (.)

^isn't the way to text a pretty girl? Damnit!

thanks mm13! poeTV's pretty much the only website I visit; that's been the case for about 15 years now :)

High Five!

When these guys get the "let's just be friends"-talk, it's code for "let's say hi to each other if we happen to be in the same room".

But if you're seen with too many hot chicks at once everyone just assumes you're gay.

And that, my friend, is precisely the point at which all the women will then demand to sleep with you, as you are now unattainable. So you should strive for this; the real secret to getting out of the friend zone: tell them you are gay.

I was only partially joking :(

I was taking a Russian class once in college. It was full of 1st generation Eastern Europeans who already fluently spoke the language and just wanted the easy A; it was shit straight out of the "Italian for Italians" Monty Python sketch.

As you can imagine in any class filled with college age Eastern Europeans, the girls were H-O-T. Normally out of my league. There was one cute (but not hot) Polish girl I got along with and soon we were sitting together, talking all the time, and doing study sessions. She was pretty flirty up until I asked her out for a drink, then revealed she was married with a kid (with the ring on the right hand?). My knee jerk reaction was "You were flirting with me all this time while hiding that you were married?" and stop hanging out with her, but I then I figured what the hell just enjoy the class chat and study sessions.

Cut to the very first day she was absent from class. One of the hot Russian ex pats takes the seat next to me and starts asking, "So where's (Polish girl)?" We left class together talking, and she kept making little probes into the dating status into me and Polish girl. Cut to a week later during a snowstorm, she IMs me to come "come over and study and keep each other warm". So...that happened.

I guess she just wanted the satisfaction of stealing a guy she saw as claimed by another girl, because we never really talked much after that. But, soon after, the HOTTEST Russian chick in the class came up and started asking about why me and the previous Russian didn't sit and walk with me anymore. We started a thing for a couple weeks, but as soon as me and Polish girl drifted apart, the super hot Russian seemed to immediately lose interest. What challenge was I anymore?

Girls have an utterly Byzantine system of competition with each other.

Sono inglese di Gerard's Cross.

They do compete but I wouldn't say it's Byzantine.

Don't fault guys for being attracted to you, and being disappointed if the attraction isn't mutual.

But, that being said, viewing women as solely existing as a personal prize for your dick is pretty reprehensible, and this seems to be the underlying thought behind all this "friend zone" bullshit.

That "personal prize for your dick" talk no doubt applies to some guys, but I bet most believers in a "friend zone" are nowhere near as misogynistic; they just don't have a good idea of what to expect in dealing with women. If they've learned anything at all from movies and TV, though, the girl WILL eventually fall for the quiet mopey guy, which I believe is why people believe in a "friend zone". Pams eventually fall for Jims, that's a fact, until you learn otherwise.

So I figure education is the key here. Also: while men are more likely to consider dating any woman they enjoy enough to be friends with, women are more likely to see friendship and dating as separate considerations, leading to all sorts of wacky misunderstandings.

Also, a lot of women WON'T sleep with a guy unless she already trusts and likes him (friends). But I guess the words "trust" and "like" don't exist in the PUA lexicon.

I think a lot of these PUA types forget that while the man is attempting to find a person that they want to spend a lot of time and/or have sex with, the WOMAN IS ALSO DOING THIS AT THE SAME TIME.




:o

TeenerTot, text me. I'm not like these other losers.

Hopefully "teener" is not indicative of any lifestyle habits.

Hint to young men:

If you call a relationship with a woman being in a "friend zone" and refer to yourself as a "nice guy," you're probably, at least according to the woman in question, considered neither.

To Borts comment... I've seen guys pull the old "if I do anything she asks she's bound to respect me" with girls because they're incorrigible people-pleasers. And I have seen girls exploit that as a source of labor.

That to me is the friend zone, not actual friendship, just an ambiguous hell that people choose to be in.

I agree that it's not misogynist, but it is dumb, and it's unfortunatley that some dudes just start swinging the other way towards actual misogyny because it's the only way they learn to stop being a doormat.

unfortunate*

pastor: That's a good point. I didn't really think about how the "friend zone" can be interpreted in other ways.

baleen: I'd agree. Yup. Pretty Much.

Gmork: It's actually derived from my dog's name. Martini; I call her Tini; a friend called her Teenertot (like tatertot) and I, without much forethought, used it here. Now I've got a kina pedo-ish screen name. My bad.

pastor: also agreed on that's a good point.

TeenerTot: if it helps, I always figured your name is a nonsense term of unknowable origins.