Anyone sane think that wouldn't be the outcome of 'stand your ground' gun laws?

Just make sure you shoot them to death, so there's no pesky different version of events as not seen through crazy eyes.

If I recall, those laws are often "last man standing" laws, and they'd been abused by gang members, domestic violence deaths, etc., since the person left breathing often got to blame the dead person for what happened.

or, you know, staying in his fucking car when police told him to.

I don't believe police told him to. A 9/11 operator suggested it.

Also, yes, if you can't take on a teenager about half your size, maybe VIGILANTE is not your calling. At least Phoenix Jones knows how to fight. But who needs to actually be tough when you can just carry around guns?

I hate how racial everything became too. For me it wasn't about black vs white, but armed vs the unarmed. I wish more people saw it that way too.

waaaa why can't black people go back to suffering in silence like the good ol days?

God forbid we discuss race because it might make you uncomfortable or get THEM riled up.

If you don't think Trayvon Martin died because he was black, you are a fool.

He died because Zimmerman is an idiot. I can't imagine a scenario where an armed person confronts an unarmed person and winds up with his life in danger that doesn't involve the armed person being a colossal fuckup.

Is the idiot a racist idiot? It certainly seems possible, but who cares? It's also possible that the the kid was being unwise.

I haven't been following the trial, and the presumption of innocence is an important protection for all of us. I'm not saying that the verdict was wrong. What I'm saying is fuck this guy, and fuck every racist piece of shit on the internet who thinks Treyvon was a "thug" because he had a twitter account named "@badassnigga" or whatever. Seriously, fuck them.

I think the government definitely takes advantage of people being distracted by shit like this to push things through at the same time while we're all looking the other way like the farm bill, which is going to be DISASTROUS.

So yes I do hate the media for choosing to ignore important stories while George Zimmerman gets to be on the TV for months.

you don't think it's germane that all accounts show Zimmerman had an issue with black people and followed and cornered Martin because he was black? (are you seriously going to tell me the guy would have done the same with a white teenager walking home?)

there's a lot of negative things about this trial, but perhaps the worst is that people in states with stand your ground laws will now feel emboldened to do stupid shit (especially to black people). i think that's pretty fucking important. also, the trial shows the systemic racism that still exists in our justice system. a black woman in florida recently got 20 years for firing a warning shot into the air to scare away and abusive partner. so yes, we absolutely should still discuss race while these inequities still exist.

Dealing with gross yankee naivete' is the only reservation I have about moving out of the South.

Did Zimmerman use a fucking Glock or something?

The story didn't "pointlessly cook up racial tension" at all, it's more like it lifted the big ugly rock that racism was hidden under.

>>you don't think it's germane that all accounts show Zimmerman had an issue with black people and followed and cornered Martin because he was black? (are you seriously going to tell me the guy would have done the same with a white teenager walking home?)

I suppose that it's germane to the discussion. I don't think it's germane to the question of his guilt or innocence, at least morally.

If he deliberately murdered the kid because he was black, that would be a hate crime, and I support hate crimes legislation, because they are quite literally crimes against society as a whole.

But I don't think he meant to kill the kid. He fucked up.

I think there's a difference between racism, an outdated and morally bankrupt politcal philosophy, and prejudice, a universal human weakness. In all honesty, as a white middle class child of the pre civil rights era (born 1958) I might tend to be more suspicious of the black kid. That's a prejudice that would often turn out to be wrong. That's for me to struggle with. It's not a crime to have this weakness, it doesn't make me a bad person, and pretending that I don't have this weakness won't help me overcome it. But it ought to be a crime for me to go around patrolling the streets with a gun, confronting kids on the street, without any real training. If I do, I'm likely to kill someone out of sheer stupidity, and because of the ways in which I am stupid, I'm more likely to kill a black kid than a white kid... but it would be manslaughter either way.

In Florida, patrolling the streets with a gun is not a crime. I think that's fucked up, and it's not going to make people any safer. I honestly think that's the issue here, more than race.

Just found out about Marissa Alexander, and I wonder if that changes anything. It's different to talk about race as a factor in a jury's decision (which is supposed to be right, and representative of society) than in Zimmerman's action, which is obviously a fuckup.

Zimmerman killed Martin with a single gunshot. That is not a "fuckup." That is cold blooded murder.

Cold-blooded means premeditated and deliberate? I just don't believe that, and the number of shots fired doesn't prove that.

Oh fuck off Zerdzer

i can't believe some of you people think that race is the issue here. the media made race the issue, but some of you are actually falling for that? some kid with a criminal record gets shot for attacking an armed guy who followed him. shit like that happens every day in USA. then somebody says it's about race and suddenly everybody cares, because the media doctors photos of zimmerman to make him look white and only uses pictures of a young trayvon. and i even heard zimmerman referred to as a "white latino". the story has been spun to be racial, and it's blatant.

this isn't about what makes me uncomfortable, this is about what is good for our culture. this is clearly not good for it, thanks shitty american media.

meanwhile, that NSA whistle-blowing is going down, and nobody cares because they care more about the dramatic racist murder case in the news!

also, none of us know what happened there when trayvon was shot by zimmerman. none of us were there. for zimmerman to be guilty, there cannot be any reasonable doubt that he did something illegal. the justice system did not factor in race or all these emotions people have about race (thank god), so zimmerman walked.

florida's laws regarding what happened make it pretty easy for you to do something stupid (like zimmerman did) while being within the law. people should at least be talking about the stand your ground laws in florida, not racial bullshit

Zerdzer begins with "i can't believe some of you people think that race is the issue here" and then goes on to say "also, none of us know what happened there when trayvon was shot by zimmerman. none of us were there."

That's a hell of a cake you've eaten and also have.

And you're absolutely bad for our culture.

what are you saying?

...nothing you'll ever comprehend

pfft, yeah, just take any opportunity you can to insult me

way to be a jerk

The fact most of poe posters are scared to call BOTH people idiots shows how afraid they are of being mistakenly identified as racist. I have no such fears, my prejudice towards any other living being is based entirely on behavior, no other criteria.

why aren't people talking about this more? is it because it'd make trayvon look bad or something? hmm we can't have that

Because it's a narrative only dumb racists like you could believe. I posted it as a joke -- you are a joke.

lol

"A police surveillance video taken the night that Trayvon Martin was shot dead shows no blood or bruises on George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch captain who says he shot Martin after he was punched in the nose, knocked down and had his head slammed into the ground."

http://abcnews.go.com/story?id=16022897&sid=3029898#.T3O5yJhn9 qs

did i say i believe it?

everybody is assuming all sorts of things about zimmerman and trayvon is painted to be immaculate by the media, i wouldn't be surprised if it were true. there aren't enough facts to go around

i'm probably the least racist person here, buddy

"i'm probably the least racist person here, buddy"

Qualify, please.

Zerdzer you're gonna have to 360 better than that.

you should look at every comment i've ever posted. like for example, the first one i posted on this video.

shady cases with idiots like zimmerman crop up all the time but don't make it to the media.

so the media gets their claws on this one, and they portray zimmerman as a white guy by doctoring his photos, and only use pictures of a younger trayvon. then zimmerman's referred to as a "white latino". it's perfect: a court case where there's few hard facts and lots of extrapolation and theorizing, add some racial innuendo in there and you got yourself a controversy worthy of the media. drama fucking sells. if people didn't give a shit about race (if people weren't racists), we'd be talking about something actually constructive, like florida's laws. but no, thanks to the media and racism, a bunch of people start crying that crazy gunman zimmerman gets off free because trayvon is black and zimmerman isn't (nobody pays attention to the real reason, which is florida's laws). oh, and then don't forget, there's people who insist trayvon deserved to die by making equally stupid assumptions. do you not see how this is racist?

seems like americans just want drama, they wanna have drama all the time.

Everybody wants to punish Zimmerman for killing Martin. What about Martin? What's HIS punishment for getting killed?

what are you on about?

Well, for one thing, I'm on to your obvious trolling, zerdzer. Why don't you go poke Chocolate Jesus?

It already happened before, but it was a black woman with a gun, she didn't kill anyone, and got 20 years.

Wow just googled that case. THAT'S fucked UP!

The woman who got 20 years is Marissa Alexander. Google her.

Her sentence was overturned in September, so just a few weeks after the Zimmerman verdict.

Well, I'd like to STAND MY GROUND, but apparently you can only do that if you're armed.

Sadly he has to submit to the man with superior skin tone

Roll for Magic Missile.

hahahahahaha

Tell me I'm wrong, motherfucker.

cynical extrapolating like that really isn't healthy

it didn't happen like that, so you can't really use that as an argument for banning all guns, so yes you are wrong

Zimmerman is a piece of shit suffering feelings of inadequacy. To compensate, he bought a gun, tried to make himself look like Walter White and pretended to be some psuedo-cop.

If he hadn't had that gun, he never would have had the balls to confront anyone and Trayvon would be alive today.

Piss on the handguns and the people who want them.

what a compelling argument

Here's the argument, since you're not paying attention:

If George Zimmerman had not had a gun, Trayvon Martin would be alive today.

The gun not only gave Zimmerman the tool with which to kill Martin, but the false confidence to instigate the incident in the first place.